It has been an interesting few days on the compact camera front, with two vastly different additions from Leica and Panasonic. As usual, the Macfilos team have quite different perspectives on these two new entrants to a hot area of the camera market. So, we asked a couple of them for their first impressions. It’s Leica versus Panasonic. Don’t hold back, lads….
Leica has brought a welcome and radical redesign to its four-thirds D-Lux, although it some might say it’s disappointing that the internals remain very much as before. Panasonic, on the other hand, has gone all out for a new market with its surprising S9 — a camera aimed fairly and squarely at so-called “content creators”. But from the perspective of Macfilos readers, it seems to be lacking a few features we take for granted these days.
‘Group think’ is frowned upon among the Macfilos team. They can’t even agree on how to spell colour, or whether England or Germany has the best football team. No surprise then that a couple of them, Mike and Keith, have slightly different views on these two cameras. So let’s hear what they have to say.
Leica versus Panasonic — Keith James on the new compacts
Panasonic Lumix S9
Wow! An extremely light, compact, full-frame, interchangeable-lens camera, with an L-Mount!
For L-Mount fans (like me), already in possession of compatible lenses, the S9 is an exciting development. Furthermore, street photographers eschewing an EVF, shooting primarily from the hip (like me), will immediately recognize its potential. Along these lines, Panasonic’s decision to simultaneously offer a fixed-aperture, 26mm, f/8 pancake lens, is a stroke of genius.
Did I mention the S9 also has Panasonic’s highly regarded IBIS and autofocus systems?
Photographers who like to show off a bit (like me) will also be excited by the look of this camera. Panasonic is offering three (non-special edition) colour variants. Very neat, even if less discreet, on the street.
Videographers and photographers with their own colour presets, for example in Lightroom, are welcoming the S9’s new real-time LUTS feature. The ‘look-up table’ (LUTS) framework deserves more discussion than is possible here. Suffice it to say that Panasonic has made it a centrepiece of the new camera.
So, why are some commentators describing the Lumix S9 as ‘odd’, ‘baffling’, or ‘disappointing’?
Two issues about the camera are dominating the critiques: no EVF and an electronic-only shutter. A further concern is the lack of ‘hot shoe’ for mounting a flash or EVF.
This camera is clearly not for photographers who highly value an EVF, are concerned about rolling-shutter problems, and regularly use flash.
None of those concerns apply to me!
I suspect they will also not be of concern to many young photographers. These are ‘content-generators’ willing to trade those requirements for the S9’s form-factor and fun-factor. And by the way, it delivers high-quality images, and comes in at £1,499 GBP.
A final thought. I am both an owner and fan of a camera that reminds me of the S9. It’s an example of a truly innovative, compact form factor, introduced by a respected manufacturer. It also has a similar size sensor, no EVF, and when coupled with a pancake lens, is highly pocketable. Like the S9, it also delivers great pictures. It’s the Leica TL2.
Leica D-Lux 8
Speaking of Leica, the latest iteration of their entry-level D-Lux series cameras is quite a different beast. Having said that, ‘beast’ is hardly the appropriate metaphor for this little camera and its tiddly sensor. I love the look of it, though. That’s probably because, as intended, it looks so much like my Leica Q2. Its minimalist style is pure Leica. The marketing/design team has done an impressive job in reimagining the D-Lux, bringing it into line with its Leica siblings.
As a Leica owner and fan, I welcome the introduction of this camera. It offers many more people the chance to own a Leica and enjoy the Leica photographic experience.
However, the almost simultaneous release of the D-Lux 8 and Lumix S9 highlights the stark contrast between these two cameras. It also reveals the differing philosophies and target audiences of the two manufacturers.
The D-Lux 8 is not exactly at the leading edge of camera innovation. Leica has retained the four-thirds sensor found in previous iterations. This renders the camera a complete outlier compared to the company’s stable of full-frame devices. The company has also retained the 24-70mm-equivalent zoom lens, although I am told is excellent. The principal changes wrought in this version ‘8’ seem to be the simplified control set up and improved menu system. It can also apparently capture true DNG images, unlike its predecessor, which used Panasonic’s RAW format.
Unlike their L2 collaboration partner, Leica is hardly breaking new ground here.
As the owner of both Q-series and SL-series cameras, I am clearly not in the target audience for this device. I cannot use any of my Leica lenses with it, and a Q2 covers my fixed-focal-length, walk-around camera needs. If I travelled back in time, to when I first thought about a Leica, would I have considered this one? At that time, I had little appreciation of sensor size and format. I had even less appreciation for the types of photography I would come to enjoy. So, perhaps I might have been tempted.
I suspect, therefore, that people whose interest in photography is nascent but growing, who are intrigued by the Leica brand, might go for the D-Lux 8. I hope that is the case. Then, perhaps like me, they will eventually dive deeper into the Leica world.
I think it would be fair to say, however, that in buying the D-Lux, they would not be sampling the company’s innovative spirit or leading edge technology. In the Leica versus Panasonic innovation stakes, I think this one goes to Panasonic. Buyers of the D-Lux 8 would be getting that red dot, though.
Leica versus Panasonic — Mike Evans on the new compacts
Leica D-Lux 8
Oddly enough, the new D-Lux 8 is more or less in line with the suggestions in my article on April 22. I predicted a Q lookalike which would adhere to the established format of four-thirds sensor and the excellent 24–75mm (equivalent) Vario-Summilux lens which is very familiar from early D-Lux models.
This is a sensible and pragmatic decision by Leica, and I applaud the way in which the camera has suddenly become a true member of the Leica family. I never believed that Leica was working on an entirely new compact, as many pundits thought.
The rear of the camera, with minimal buttons, is reminiscent of other models in the range. From the front it looks very much like the Q. With the emphasis on Leica-style menus and simplified controls, potential purchasers who don’t read the small print will be delighted with a travel camera that exudes Leica genes at a quarter the cost of the big boy.
Criticism of the four-thirds sensor is misplaced when we consider the options. If you want a 24-75-equivalent zoom and still have a compact camera, the D-Lux 8 is about what you can expect. It certainly couldn’t have a full-frame sensor without a significant increase in size and weight.
But not everything has to be full frame. Indeed, cameras such as the Sony RX100, with the even smaller 1in sensor, can offer longer zooms in a small package. Furthermore, both OM Systems and Panasonic have built their reputations on m4/3. OM in particular, is the choice of many serious photographers who produce outstanding results. And Panasonic’s m4/3 cameras have a strong reputation among videographers.
The overall m4/3 system size is the great advantage, and this is reflected in the D-Lux 8. If you want a compact camera with a 24-70mm zoom, this is about as small as it gets. Of course, if money is no objective, the Q3, and its 60-megapixel full-frame sensor, can successfully mimic the 75mm long end of the D-Lux lens, while wiping the floor with the D-Lux at 28mm. But the Q3 is much pricier and is by no means as compact as the D-Lux 8.
Much as the D-Lux 8 is precisely what I expected it to be, I was surprised by the low-key launch. While Panasonic was flying journalists to Japan and flooding the internet with “content creator” efforts, Leica made do with a short press release, composed with an unusually soft foot on the hyperbole pedal.
No spec sheet and a minimal collection of photographs is unusual for a Leica launch. Unusually, also, there were no ambient shots and no examples of output.1There could be a good reason for the omission of specifications and output examples. This is an advance release, and the final firmware is possibly not yet available.
This gulf is evident in the available photographs used in this article. The resulting media reaction was predictable, and nowhere near as comprehensive as Panasonic’s S9 coverage. It’s almost as if Leica didn’t really care. And that puts a big question mark over the future of the D-Lux. Is Leica really committed, or is this just a stopgap?
I was also disappointed that Leica did not take my advice and rename the D-Lux as the Leica D. This would have got rid of the egregious “deluxe” connotation. It would have set a clear line between the old Panasonic clones and this new camera. As Michael Johnston, The Online Photographer, said of the camera: “the Deluxe 8… sounds like the name of a 1930s Packard”. But he’s thinking of buying one, nevertheless…
The D-Lux 8 will appeal to those Leica fans who want a small, compact zoom camera to accompany their Q, M or SL. The market is already there, as we’ve seen in the past. This new-look D-Lux could even create a new market. And, for the first time, wiseacres will no longer be able to use the put-down that the camera is just a rebadged Panasonic.
Panasonic Lumix S9
Here’s an interesting development. I really want to like this camera and, if I were a “content creator” and interested in video, I could well be tempted. Panasonic has always done video well, and this pared-down compact offers full-frame performance without the weight and bulk of other cameras. In fact, the nearest S9 competitor is the Sigma fp, a camera which also majors on video.
Wearing my Macfilos hat (we don’t do much on video, and I am definitely a stills photographer by nature), the S9 is a disappointment. Two negative aspects stand out: No mechanical shutter (again, just like the Sigma) and no circuitry to support an accessory EVF. The fp, however, does have the option of adding an external viewfinder. I also don’t like the horizontal strap lugs which are now appearing on most new cameras. My extensive stock of straps equipped with split rings do not work well with the horizontal lugs.
Even if we accept the advantages of a compact body and forgo any EVF lusts, the camera has too many compromises for my purposes. The lack of compact lenses, for one thing. While the 18 to 85mm f/1.8 Panasonic primes are light and small, they are not sufficiently compact to live happily with the small S9 body. I’d soon be itching for that accessory grip and, once fitted, there isn’t a lot to choose between the S9 and the S5II. Except that the S5II is streets ahead when it comes to still-photographer wish lists.
Panasonic is introducing a 26mm pancake lens which, apart from offering an odd focal length, is attractive as a lightweight day lens. I can live with the f/8 aperture for street photography and general carry around, but the absence of autofocus (understandable in the small size) means this is a lens designed for zone focus (although it lacks a distance scale). There is also an interesting lightweight 18-40mm f/4.5-6.3 zoom, designed to match the S9’s size and form. Both these lenses should complement the minimalist camera and help address my concern about suitable lens availability.
The Panasonic S9 may be many things, and it could become the darling of the vlogging set, but it is not a Q3. Cost apart, give me the Q3 any day. But, despite my personal views, Panasonic has taken a bold step and I think the camera will be popular among its target audience. As Andy Westlake says in Amateur Photographer says this week:
…I’m sure there are some photographers who’d really like to give the Panasonic S9 a try. And to be fair, I suspect that when the 18-40mm kit zoom finally appears, the camera will make a whole lot more sense. Just don’t be fooled into thinking you’ll be getting a Leica-like street camera on the cheap. Instead, it’s a camera for vloggers that’s just dressed up to resemble a vintage rangefinder.
Leica versus Panasonic — what do you think?
Are you siding with Keith, enthusiastically welcoming the Lumix S9? Or, do you share Mike’s distaste for its lack of EVF and mechanical shutter? And is Keith’s lukewarm but hopeful endorsement of the D-Lux 8 in line with your thinking? Or, like Mike, do you think it is a good refresh but lacks an upgrade to its technical and optical capabilities?
Here’s your chance to enter the Leica versus Panasonic debate. We look forward to hearing your perspectives on these two new, but very different, entries into the compact camera club.
Want to contribute an article to Macfilos? It’s easy. Just click the “Write for Us” button. We’ll help with the writing and guide you through the process.
An interesting article, this. It made several points I was interested in, and also raised questions I’m curious to have answered.
First off, I’m a potential Leica buyer. In the market for, initially, a used CL, but I’ve not yet found one I was happy with or could afford, here in Australia. I did look at the Panasonic offerings, but decided I’m not in the market for one, so enough said. Good cameras – but not for me.
I did get to handle and play with a D-Lux 8, a demo in one of the better Melbourne stores (the one in Spotswood, if anyone knows the local geography). And decided, nope. To me it’s a turkey. Too much deja vu. Not enough bang for the buck. I reckon that Leica decided to play safe, and put out a small-sensor camera with not much in it that’s new (other than the styling, which I like, being a great fan of the Q series). I agree with TOP’s Mike Johnson that the name ‘D-Lux’ has all the nostalgic value of a 1930s American sedan, but 17 MP of resolution is, at least for me, too outdated to make me invest the almost AUD $3000 sale price for this newest baby.
Sad, really. Leica could have done much better, but they decided to go with the tried and true. Oh, well. I now have to wait until they come out with their next round of new cameras, which at my age is somewhat of a risk. Otherwise, on I’ll go with my search for a good CL.
As I’ve already written, many thanks for an excellent article with so much useful information. Also the comments which are informative and (mostly) to the point. Good one!!
Best from DANN
Oops… having written and posted my comment (entirely my opinion may I add) I went into several web sites including that of the Leica Shop in Melbourne – and discovered the D-Lux 8 has a waiting time for delivery of AT LEAST ten weeks.
My camera dealer (in Melbourne) is now also awaiting stock. I’ve heard from someone (not from a shop BTW) that one or two cameras have been “doing the rounds” of the better photo retailers, to give the customers an opportunity to see it and handle it for a limited time. Which again says it all, methinks.
Good one, Leica…
Obviously the market has spoken, loudly and clearly.
May I say that, for my own (and very personal) criticisms of the ‘8’, I’m happy that it has generated such a good response, and taken off so popularly. So Leica may yet be on to a winner. I truly hope so!!
Best from DANN
Dann,
Thanks for your thoughts on the D-Lux 8 It’s a bit of a mystery to me why it is in short supply. Perhaps many people have been persuaded that it is a good alternative to the Fujifilm X100VI, although the although it is a vastly different camera not even crossed my mind that the Leica shortage could be engineered in order to create unrequited demand. I think there is an Renner of this also in Fuji’s strategy.
Leica manufactures cameras in order to make money, and the way to make more money is to produce and sell more of something, not less, especially when viable alternative products are readily available.
I suspect four factors for short supply:
1) Lack of production build up pre-launch. You typically look at a 12 month to 36 month cycle and predict the likely volume “under the curve”. Typically the volume sales flatten out after 6 months. It maybe Leica had underestimated the demand for what essentially is a reskinned camera.
2) The Panasonic LX100 had stopped production a while back. That meant when Leica gave the DL-8 the green light the component suppliers would have to start up their production again which has created a lag in the system.
3) That connects to the fact that Leica apparently batch produce products: there is no continuous production line. So if you don’t have sufficient components you can’t produce. As we know from Covid and Ukraine supply chain issues it can really slow production to a halt
4) It may well be that as Leica realized their market entry point now starts above $6000 that they were in danger of having fewer customers come into the brand and that means fewer customers potentially trading up. The solution may be a market test with the DL-8. If it works and sells well then you have the confidence to invest in developing a new DL-9 from the ground up. Likely we wouldn’t see that until late 2028.
Et voila. A new video. Lots of new info and the first sample images.
Looks promising if you ask me.
https://youtu.be/Aiovu0DzIz8?si=6aAlczOF1YdObZC8
Oh, how great the internet is when it comes to rumors, introductions and only the minimum of specs announced about an upcoming model. The recent introduction of the S9 and the D lux 8 is a great example of this. That’s why I think this is a great article.
On one hand Panasonic goes all out. Flies in all wel known vloggers/influencers/content creators and comes with a new base model full frame and gets a lot af attention and exposure, both positive and negative. And not only about the actual product but also about the way they get the exposure with all the first looks videos popping up on Youtube.
And on the other hand, there is Leica making a low key product announcement for the upcoming D lux 8. As this is only an announcement there is only one video showing the actual product. Also there is only a few specs mentioned by Leica. This also gets a lot of attention and exposure, both positive and negative. And not only about the actual product but also the way Leica handles this announcement.
The Panasonic S9 is not for me as I only do photography and for that I want an EVF. Hence why I sold my Sigma Fp after only short use.
The D lux 8 however I find very interesting. As mentioned in an earlier comment I’ve owned a Leica X, Q, Q2 and SL2. All great camera’s but for my usage I’ve learned that compactness is important for me. The D lux line, while not on the image quality level as mentioned camera’s, probably fits this bill for me. As does the Q line but at a much higher price range.
Up untill the announcement of the D lux 8 I never was tempted to get the D lux 7. Not because of specs or image quality but pure because of the user experience wich, to my eyes isn’t Leica (Das Whesentliche).
With the D lux 8 this has changed. It looks and probably feels like a mini Q2 or Q3, wich is, as I think we al agree on, a good thing. However, because of the minimal information provided so far by Leica, everybody is criticising the specs. I don’t think that’s fair. Don’t criticise a book by it’s cover. We know so little yet. The design is promising. Why is the fact that it has the same lens as previous models a bad thing. The Q has had the same lens since it’s introduction, yet nobody is bothered by that. In fact, the lens is still praised as one of the best (and rightfully so). The image sensor gets lots of criticism as well for being the same as before even if we have only seen that it has the same mp count.
My point is, speculation is fun. And we are allways on the look out for new products. But let’s wait until we know more. There is good reason that the Bobby Tonelli video is the only D lux 8 video around. It has to do with embargo. As the video makes clear, he is only allowed to show the exterior. He can not even show the menu system. These kind of embargo’s are probably the reason not more youtubers make a video about it and wait untill they can show a real hands on.
So, let’s wait and see. The book cover looks promising. The specs may be a little underwhelming at first glance, but until we see it in real live we know what it’s really like.
And for me. In my provious comment I said, if it has the looks of a Q with the same button lay out and UI, I’m in. Thats why I’ve pre ordered one and why I’m really looking forward to getting it in my hands. And personally I hope that one of the two circular buttons on the back acts like the crop button on the Q(2,3), but not for cropping but for a stepped zoom (24, 28,35, 50, 75).
Oh, and one more thing. In his video Bobby Tonelli said: “If it looks and feels like a Q on the outside, chances are it acts like a Q on the inside”. I think this is a nice insight as to what we can expect.
Well put, Jono, as usual. I used the Dlux 109 as a great macro camera and a color digital backup and found the m4/3 sensor and lens combination excellent. With the current AI editing software on the market, including Topaz, the pixel dimensions are not as important as they once were. For me that means a pocket digital camera like the D-Lux 8 can be a strong and versatile backup. I say that with some regret that the CL was discontinued (a really excellent compact!).
I’ve done a bit of size checking here:
https://camerasize.com/compare/#922,923
This is the upshot:
Panasonic Lumix S9 is 5% (5.8 mm) wider and 7% (4.7 mm) taller than Leica D-Lux 8.
Panasonic Lumix S9 is 24% (15 mm) thinner than Leica D-Lux 8.
Panasonic Lumix S9 [486 g] weights 22% (89 grams) more than Leica D-Lux 8 [397 g] (*inc. batteries and memory card).
Panasonic Lumix S9 dimensions: 126×73.9×46.7 mm (camera body only, excluding protrusion)
Leica D-Lux 8 dimensions: 120.2×69.2×61.7 mm (camera body only, excluding protrusion)
Of course, the D-lux 8 also has a 24-75 mm equivalent lens, and that µ43 sensor is really quite good. 17mp won’t shake the world, but then nor will the 24mp of the S9
By the time you put a decent lens onto the S9, as Michael says, it’ll be nearly as big as the S5II which also has an EVF and the mechanical shutter that non-stacked sensors so badly need.
If I were to get a camera like the S9, then I’d certainly go for the little sigma fp . . . . but I’m not, on the other hand I really fancey the d-Lux 8 – Hopefully I’ll have a write up about it by the release date on July 2nd! (hopefully!!)
All the best
Jono
I am also interested in the D-Lux 8, Jono, and I am thinking of getting one. Currently, I have a Fuji X100VI on loan for review and am impressed with the output, but it is too near the Q3 in size (allowing for the difference in lens dimensions) and performance to be an additional camera. But I already own the Q3, so the much smaller D-Lux 8 is attractive as an alternative. I still love the Ricoh GRIII, but it is always second best. Despite the excellent IQ (almost as good as the Fuji, I think) I always find it is an “in case” camera. That is, I shove it in the case but always as a backup. If you own a Q3 and an M11 (not to mention an SL3), D-L 8 sounds like a good carry around camera for when you want to travel lighter. Mike
The D-Lux 109 was my entry camera into Leica and it served me well as a compact everyday and travel camera until I upgraded to the CL. It produced good image quality and the fast zoom lens offered nice bokeh with capable low-light performance. The aperture ring along with the aspect ratio control on the lens are thoughtful features. The new D-Lux 8 retains all these qualities plus true Leica simplicity on controlling and handling, along with Leica philosophy on color science. For owners of previous D-Lux cameras, it is definitely a logical choice to trade in and upgrade to the D-Lux 8. For non-Leica users who admire Leica cameras, it is also a reasonable and economical choice to add into their gears. With that being said, Leica absolutely needs to upgrade the m3/4 sensor with higher megapixels, phase detect AF and stabilization on the next generation D-Lux 9, weather sealing will be a nice addition too. In order to keep the compact size and light weight, retaining a m3/4 sensor should be fine.
I think the Panasonic S9 is aim for younger generation amateur and semi-professional content creators who want to upgrade from their phones, especially with the different color bodies being offered. They aren’t familiar using an EVF and might not even like one. Let’s be honest, most young content creators nowadays are much more into video than stills, so it makes sense to design the S9 leaning more towards the video side. However, I think the price is set a little too high at $1500 with its “limited” features; between $1000 and $1300 will attract a lot more potential buyers. I hope Panasonic will be able to turn things around and stay in the camera business, more competition and innovation among manufacturers is always good for both customers and the industry as a whole.
Good insight, Patrick. But, unlike Leica, Panasonic cameras are always discounted. The S5II here in the UK is now selling for £1,599 which is the same as the starting price for the S9. So I thik that price tag will come down significantly once the initial backlog and hype has quietened down. I wouldn’t mind betting that it will be at your $1,300 within the year.
The system won’t let me reply under David B’s last post, so I have to do it here.
“I never really liked the Nikon 1 system . . . the lenses didn’t have sufficient (zoom?) range”‘
No need for me to try and sell you on that system, but Nikon offered 6.7-13mm, 10-30mm, 11-27mm, 30-110mm, 10-100mm, and even 70-300mm zooms. These are actual focal lengths, multiply by 2.7 to get 35mm equivalent, which all told, means they had zooms from 18mm to 810mm equivalent. For an all-purpose zoom, the 10-100mm (27-270mm equiv) does the trick.
I tried nearly all of them plus three different bodies, but settled on one J5 body and three lenses, one zoom and two primes, to keep and use.
.
I have in my hands, Martin, two Nikon 1s: the J2 and the V3 ..with the 30-110 long zoom lens on the J2, and the 6.7-13mm very-wide on the V3 (I like wide-angle lenses). (I think I have one or two other Nikon 1 lenses knocking about.)
But the 6.7-13mm (18-35mm) is not even a 2x zoom, and is rather ‘chunky’ for what it is, (and it has an f3.5-5.6 aperture, so it ‘loses light’ as you zoom). The 30-110mm (80-300mm) also does the same.
The V3 takes a (removable) electronic viewfinder – great! – and has fast autofocus ..but it somehow seems to me that these cameras are based on a list of ‘features’ (things which Nikon vowed to squeeze into a very small camera) but re not designed for camera ‘users’. That’s to say that they’re not very ‘user friendly’ ..but your opinion may, of course, be completely different.
They shoot video ..which is more of what I wanted from them than stills: small, interchangeable-lens, very capable video cameras weren’t so easy to find thirteen years ago, so I bought the original J2, and later ‘upgraded’ to the more versatile V3, which provided so-called ‘FullHD’ video. But I found them fiddly to use, whereas the – smaller – original Sony RX100 had a less-fiddly 28-100mm (equivalent) built-in collapsable (not permanently protruding) f1.8-4.9 zoom, and was much more ‘user friendly’ ..for me, anyway.
Nikon tried multiple variants of the 1 series (V1, J1, J2, S1, V2, J3, S2, AW(All-Weather)1, V3, J4, J5 ..and so, confusingly, on) but after seven years gave up on the Nikon 1 series ..as I had some while before.
Replying here because the system won’t let me reply to your latest post about Nikon 1. Whether the f-stops vary as much as you say, I cannot confirm, as I have always used my Nikon 1s on auto exposure. I have not experienced the problems you cite. Makes me think there may be something defective with your examples. Check out smallsensor.com to see some of the beautiful work Thomas Stirr has done with Nikon 1 cameras.
I liked the V3 for its detachable EVF and grip, but have since settled on a J5 as a pocketable camera. I also retained an AW-1 to use at the beach, literally in the surf.
I know there were some issues with the Chinese lenses, a gear breaking on several models. Most of the zooms you reference are the older models; many of the newer ones automatically extend when you turn on the camera.
The most expensive lens in the line was the 70-300mm (189-810mm equiv) was made in Japan, indicating even Nikon did not trust their own Chinese factory to produce that premium lens.
Well, there you are, Martin: some pros and some cons. (Oh, I get only the message “smallsensor.com is for sale” when I try to take a look ..but I know that many marvellous pics can be shot with a small sensor: I use a small-sensor Casio, and 1″ Sony RX100MkVI and many other teeny sensor cameras myself, like the really tiny interchangeable-lens Pentax Q-S1..!)
By the way, to reply to a comment which DOESN’T have a ‘Reply’ option beneath it, just scroll up to the last relevant comment which DOES have that ‘Reply’ comment – in this case, my comment beginning ‘It’s no problem taking “..all these cameras out for “walkies” regularly..”’, and click on the ‘Reply’ button there, and your reply will appear at the end of the previous replies, like Mike’s which says “Thanks for the review..”
Assuming things haven’t changed recently, Panasonic acutualy make Leica’s DLux and previously CLux cameras. Leica install their own software and rebadge the Panasonic cameras.
That is correct, although Leica always claimed superior image processing for their JPGs. But as I understand the current situation, Panasonic have bequeathed the internals of the discontinued LX100 to enable Leica to produce its own exclusive model. I am not sure where it is made (and look forward to reading the origin label) but there was some talk of assembling it in Portugal at the Leica factory. Leica will want to be able to claim that it is a true Leica product.
Off Topic.
Regarding origin labels, in the USA all commercially sold consumer goods have to be marked with the country of origin. I suppose there are nuances of the regulations, because nowadays it is common to see a product marked “Assembled in the USA of domestic and global components”.
What about the UK? I have purchased a few tool-related items from UK suppliers, and although I am quite sure they came from China, or India, they were not marked in any way.
I think these obligations are general. Certainly the EU has strict rules and a certain percentage of the components must be made in the EU to get the accreditation.
If you look closely on the 1 video available you can quite clearly see the fateful words MADE IN CHINA on the baseplate 🙂
Personally I don’t find that significant in terms of potential quality. Some great stuff comes out of China. But it’s no so good for the image, or countering the badge engineering argument.
Thanks for this insight, David. Jason will mention this in this week’s Newsround, with a credit to you, of course.
Mike
Thorsten Overgaard actually discusses this issue, in his article on compact Leica cameras; I won’t steal his words.
In the case of the Typ 109, the Leica braded camera was made in Japan; the LX100 in China. The lens grinding machines were also different.
Dear Mike and Keith,
Your discussion is both entertaining and enlightening. If shows what different needs and expectations photographers can have! As an owner of the previous D-Lux, I have to say that a use it rarely. And that‘s not because the images aren’t good. They are, in fact, and the 17 „effective“ – thanks, David B., for the explanation – MP are enough for my needs. The super tiny buttons and the miniature yet low-res viewfinder simply didn’t grow on me. But your views encouraged me to give it another try.
As for the S9, it‘s a question of horses for courses. It is aimed at people who are making videos, and they will be happy with it. For photographers, the lack of a viewfinder is may NOT be the biggest shortcoming. The S9 has no mechanical shutter which heavily limits the use cases in photography. While we have learned from the Nikon Z9 that a high-end camera can do without a mechanical shutter, I have doubts that the much cheaper Panasonic S9 is anyhow up to this standard.
An indication for that may be that Panasonic decided to give the S9 no flash sync possibility, the accessory shoe being only a cold shoe. I guess this is because the sensor readout is soberingly slow in fact. When photographing moving subjects or working under certain light sources such as tungsten light, the results can become awful in such cases. I have shown this in my article that covers, among other cameras, the Simga fpl of which the Pana S9 reminds me pretty much: https://www.macfilos.com/2022/07/29/cl-and-tl2-discontinued-how-to-make-best-use-of-sigma-and-leica-aps-c-lenses/
But we will see what real life users say who actually work with the S9 for photography purposes.
Jörg-Peter
I think there’s a lot of cynicism directed towards the D-Lux 9 that’s misplaced. I’ll go out on a limb and say that lots of strong, technical people underestimate how much time and work it takes to get the soft squishy UX bits right. That’s what this release appears to be about.
All the same, I think that Leica understands full well that releasing the 9 without updated internals feels rather half-hearted, hence, the quiet release. The camera will be picked up by people who are itching for a small compact right now, and who aren’t so technical. I imagine that it will also help designers at Leica cut their teeth again, on this end of the market, and reduce the risk of shipping a product.
The insight that the m4/3 sensor reduces lens size as well explains a lot as far as keeping the package small. This was a wonderful analysis!
The S9 reminds me of Panasonic’s old GF line. The GF1 was a fantastic camera back in the day with amazing face detection. I took to shooting it at waist level with a spirit level in the hot shoe because I knew that it would grab any face that I pointed it at! If the S9 can do the same, who needs and EVF?
As for the D-Lux, I think that it is very much a transitional camera that Leica is using to capitalize on the X100-GR-Compact-cameras-are-having-a-moment moment. It’s curious that Panasonic hasn’t released an update LX-100, which makes me think that a complete redesign is on the way or that Panasonic will be dropping the line & the next D-Lux—which I agree should be called the Leica D—will be a Leica original.
Panasonic announced last year that it was ceasing development of small compacts and I do not think they will introduce another LX100. Leica has simply picked up the pieces, but without Panasonic’s help on the technology, the D-Lux 8 could be a dead end eventually.
Yes, the LX thingummybob and the Lumix TZ100 (of which there was, I think a ‘Leica’ version) were great little cameras: the TZ100 in particular, with its 25-250mm Leica-branded lens. And, of course, a viewfinder.
Leica seems as keen as possible to remove almost ALL buttons from the back of the new 8 (..to copy the Q cameras ..even though the 8 seems to be aimed at a different customer who may not have used a Q..) that they’re making photography more difficult with the few remaining – many unmarked – buttons and dial!
There are people who come into the Leica for the first time, and the Q3 with its minimalist UI, and don’t have problems unless they failed to read the instruction manual.
Ah, “The Instruction Manual” ..I went to St Albans (UK) in 1980 for the introduction of the Leica R4 (..after having been to Ferranti’s Hollinwood factory near Oldham to learn about the ‘LSI’ chip which controlled it ..fabricated by Ferranti for Leica.. and to Wetzlar to see (the remains of) the lens lab, and to look at the engineering).
The idea was that we (camera journalists) would be talked through all the intricacies and the intimacies of the R4 in the, er, two or three days that we’d be there in St Albans.
TWO – or THREE? – DAYS to learn how to use a (multi-light-metering-choice) SLR? ..Just like those photo-editing programs which only programmers can use, because ordinary people can’t find the one simple feature which they (we) actually want.
I DO read instruction books, thoroughly. Through and through. But many people want to try a camera, see how it works, shoot a couple of photos, take a look at the pictures and then buy it and shoot, and not wade through reams of inscrutable – and often contrary or incomprehensible – documentation.
I mean, what do you do with an iPhone? ..Point it at what you want, and squeeze or tap the big button. The camera analyses whether it’s a sunset (and should therefore under-expose), whether it’s a portrait (and should blur the background), sets the ISO, sets the aperture, sets the shutter speed, takes a burst of shots if the picture’s likely to be blurred by low-light camera-shake, then merges those and sharpens them into a single photo ..and, in essence, just gives you the picture you want.
[If I do want to read instructions – instead of taking pictures – I’d download the Asea Brown Boveri Technical reference manual ‘RAPID Instructions’ Functions and Data types, RobotWare 5.13 (1260 pages). That’ll keep me busy for a while, so I’ll see you next week!]
While I didn’t mention this, the one button I will miss is the old operation lock which, as on the Panasonic S5II which I use frequently, is an excellent way of preventing mishaps from careless fingers or thumbs. But, then, if the D-Lux 8 is to follow the M, Q and SL, such conveniences are too old-fashioned for Leica. I am eagerly awaiting to try the D-Lux 8 to see just how they have changed the UI.
It is nice to have more compact options. I have no problems with M4/3 sensors. They have and currently satisfy all my needs. All my weighty full frame have found new happy homes.
Those m4/3 lenses are terrific ..the 60mm macro, for instance (120mm equivalent) is so versatile; the 45mm short tele (like a 90mm) gives a beautiful blurred background just ‘like a’ Leica (ho-ho!); the 75mm f1.8 (like a 150mm) ..gorgeous. I don’t remember which wide lenses I have (in the other room) but I think they’re a Walimex 7mm, a Panny(?) 8mm, the 15mm (30mm), there’s the Voigtländer 25mm f0.9 (I think) ..there’s a whole host of other small, lightweight lenses, and small-ish, light-ish weight cameras – and -s-u-p-e-r-b- zooms.
Unless you’re habitually shooting in very low light, the m4/3 lenses and cameras give you everything you could possibly want ..oh, except the ‘Wesentliche’ (er, that’s Leica’s “essentials”, which means as few buttons and knobs as possible, preferably unlabelled buttons and knobs if possible, and, of course, minimal menu items).
[I think Leica’s real dream is to make a Kodak Box Brownie with just one button on it (“You press the button, we do the rest”), controlled purely by thought, and with a big, fat £6000 lens on the front of it ..that’d be their “das Wesentliche”.]
I’ve often wondered if you take all these cameras out for “walkies” regularly. I know I need to exercise the shutters of my Leica film cameras every few months, but that’s a private task I can undertake at my desk (provided I remember). But with so many functioning cameras to play with, I don’t think I would have the energy to take them out. In fact, the more choice, the more difficult I would find it to decide what to take on any particular day…
It’s no problem taking “..all these cameras out for “walkies” regularly..” so much as making sure that all their batteries are regularly checked and charged!
Nikon batts seem to last for ages – e.g; Nikon Df – without losing any charge, whereas you only have to look away for a moment and Sony A7 series batts are completely discharged! (How did Sony go so wrong with that A7 battery drain?)
Canon batts last almost as long as Nikon (in the camera, not used all that often), Panasonic [er, looks like Panny may divest itself of batteries and cameras soon] last fairly well, Fuji – the older Fujis which used AA cells – seem to drain almost as fast, unused, as the Sony A7s.
The non-rechargeable button cells in (numerous) film cameras last for several years, and the Ricoh GXR (rechargeable) batteries seem to last almost as long!
So they all get a bit of regular shooting exercise – not as much as before Covid, I admit – but it’s the BATTERIES which need regular exercise (discharge and recharge), more than the shutters! [Except for the Sonys, which discharge themselves before you can even say ‘EnteroVioform’!]
As for my recently-bought Vest Pocket Autographic – that’s OK, as it doesn’t take any batteries! (Ditto Contax IIIa, Leica M3, Reid III (..why did all these ‘3’ cameras need no batteries?), Foton, Revere Eye-Matic, Brownie 127, etc, etc.)
Thanks David. Lots to digest here. I feel encouraged to charge my small stock of cameras. Unlike you, I sell stuff when I’ve finished using it. But I wish I had your desire to preserve and revisit occasionally. For instance. I’ve always thought that I shouldn’t have sold the Nikon 1 system. It was a good all-round compact with interchangeable lenses.
I never really liked the Nikon 1 system – I’ll drag mine out this afternoon and have another look.
As far as I remember – and it’s a few months since I’ve actually used any of them, apart from recharging the batts, of course! – they didn’t quite ‘feel right in the hand’, and the lenses didn’t have sufficient (zoom?) range; there was something lacking in them ..but I’ll write an update here this evening, as have so much else to do during the day (just re-soldered a (first class!) on-the-blink Sony cassette machine, gotta go for knee physio, choose a film for Friday, send in tax reports, choose a restaurant for brother & sister-in-law, pay club subscription, etc, etc!)
(I need a part-time secretary!..anyone? )
We-ell, I didn’t “..write an update here this evening..” as so many other things needed doing first, I’m afraid!
But now that I’ve checked over my Nikon 1 V3 and J2 – plus lenses – I’m reminder of what I didn’t like ..darn it: the J2 – even with a fully replenished battery – now utterly refuses to start, though it worked OK yesterday! Grrrr!
However, I’ve the 10-30mm (28-80mm) lens here; it has an f3.5-5.6 aperture, so shooting indoors at 30mm (80mm equivalent) in this indoor light, it needs +0.7 over-exposure to give a decent picture at ISO 3200. OK, fair enough. Now I change to the 30-110mm (80-300mm) lens, and I’m using that, too, at 30mm (80mm equivalent) and the same aperture of f5.6, but I now have to over-expose at +1.3 – still at ISO 3200 – to get the same exposure (brightness)!
There’s a lack of consistency between the lenses. (‘f’ numbers, of course, are just a simple ratio: focal length divided by size of the front lens element, and are NOT, strictly speaking, an accurate value of the amount of light transmitted through a lens ..that accurate measurement – used mainly by movie-makers – is called ‘T’ stops ..the amount of light actually ‘T’ransmitted through a lens. But photographic lens makers normally try to keep ‘f’ stops pretty close to ‘T’ values.) [The Bell & Howell ‘Foton’ stills camera of 1947 or so, used ‘T’ stops on its lenses, due to B&H’s history of making moving picture cameras.]
So I just can’t trust the Nikon 1 lenses to be consistent from one lens to another. What else? It’s fiddly to have to press and twist the button on the zoom lenses to extend them in order to turn on the camera to shoot. The pretty-much ‘flush’ rectangular buttons on the left rear edge of the V3 are almost impossible to find by touch, and I usually need my thumbnail to press them in. (On other cameras – and on some headphones – I’ve put a drop or two of UV-setting transparent resin, giving tactile confirmation of which button’s which.)
I’m not sure if it’s the ISO (up to 12,800) or the inbuilt ‘noise reduction’, or the cameras’ image processing (NEF and/or jpeg) or the lenses themselves – I think the latter – but there’s a lack of sharpness or ‘bite’ and detail, and some ‘glow’ or smear around edges, which makes me think that there’s insufficient anti-reflection coating on the inner elements of these ‘1 NIKKOR’ Chinese-made lenses, which just isn’t up to Nikon’s usual standards, standards maintained in their other ‘pocketable’ cameras.
Having just slipped the (micro) SD card out of the V3 and into my Mac, to take the pictures off it, and now replaced it in the camera, I get the message – I thought cameras could disregard this – (because the Mac puts an extra file or two into the first level folder of memory cards to index them) “This memory card cannot be used. Card may be damaged; insert a different card”.
BUT there’s no way I can select the MENU in order to Format the card in the camera, as NO activity is allowable with that irremovable message on the rear screen or EVF! ..So, no way to reformat that card in the camera ..and if I don’t have a spare microSD card on me..?
However, to get the camera to recognise the card again I’ve copied the card’s contents onto my Mac, reformatted the card in my Mac using ‘Disk Utilities’, then removed the hidden files ‘.Spotlight’ and whatever the other one’s called (show hidden files on a Mac by holding down Command, Shift, and ‘period’ [full stop .]) and then put the card back into the camera. Didn’t Nikon ever expect that someone might want to put a Nikon-camera card in a Mac to download the pictures?!! ..or should it be done using WiFi? ..Nah! ..too complex for me!
In summary (lunchtime now, so gotta make this quick..) (1) the Nikon 1 cameras – and the zoom lenses – are too clunky for me, although I gave them (a variety of them) my best shot. (2) The lenses appear to have insufficient anti-reflection coating within them to give sufficient sharpness and contrast ..for me, anyway. (3) There’s a weird fractional delay between squeezing the button and the camera taking the picture in SILENT mode. (4) ISO seems accessible only through about three actions in the Menu; no direct-access button or dial ..ah, no, wait; I’ve just assigned it to Fn2. (5) Over/under exposure accessible only through pressing a dial or button, turning the dial, then pressing an OK button ..even when assigned to – for example – Fn1.
Lots of features and capabilities, but operation just too ‘clunky’, and quality of lenses just a bit too low, and apertures generally a bit too small for me, though there were/are an 18.5mm (50mm equivalent) f/1.8 and a 32mm (85mm) f/1.2 – but that doesn’t mean they give results anything like a full-frame 50mm f1.8 or the Canon full-frame 85mm f1.2 lenses; 32mm f1.2 still has the depth-of-field of a 32mm lens!
Oh, and awful decanting of images to a Mac. HOWEVER, that’s only MY opinion, of course ..and Your Mileage May Indeed Vary!
Thanks for the review, David! We could have run a retrospective on the Nikon 1 with all this information… just a few pictures and you have an article rather than a comment!
Hi David, you are so correct! I have the new 90/3.5 macro which is 180mm equivalent and amazing sharpness and rendering. Best macro I have ever owned! I also have the new OM 40-150 f/4 – an incredible compact, light sharp lens with great smooth bokeh. An the compact 8-25/4 lens is wonderful. With two compact light lenses I can enjoy a whole day. I also have the legendary 75/1.8, for a second time, the spectacular 45. For my compact, I have the truly lovely Fujifilm X100VI. I no longer want full frame. With the OM Mark II spectacular image stabilization I can shoot macro handheld and in darker situations. Also, Topaz Denoise AI (it does require a powerful computer) solves any noise issues.
M4/3 has enhanced my joy of photography.
A good round up of the wonderful lenses available for m4/3 cameras. You even mentioned the ‘Nocticron’! Even better: on the used market, most of those lenses are quite affordable.
Where I part ways is the discussion of Leica’s essentials. For me, I want a dial to select shutter speed, a lens that selects aperture, and a button for choosing ISO. User defined buttons are also nice.
So, even though the megapixel count us low, I’m pretty happy using the D-Lux Typ 109, and a digital M. If needed, I’d buy the Panasonic LX100 or 100ii; I’m not a total snob 🙂
I was disappointed that Leica did finally create a micro four thirds interchangeable lens camera. There are well-regarded “PanaLeica” m43 lenses of all focal lengths: 9mm, 12mm, 15mm, 25mm, 45mm and a few zooms. Many m34 users may have or have looked thoughtfully at those lenses (I’ve definitely considered the 15mm and the 25mm). Basically, there’s an existing Leica range of lenses, so where’s Leica’s m43 body for those lenses? The DL8 is nice though. If I’d that sort of money to spend on a new camera, I’d buy it. In fact, I’d probably buy it new because the secondhand prices will just go up.
Hi Joe
I couldn’t agree more – I thought that Leica should have gone with µ43 when they brought out the APSc X cameras, and I feel that if they had, they probably would still have a good market for them.
My thoughts also. A Leica m4/3 system is a no-brainer, given the comprehensive range of “Leica” lenses (not to mention Panasonic, OM and third-party lenses. All it would take would be for Leica to join the m4/3 partnership. Such a system would be in direct contrast to the full-frame SL system and would offer Leica users an attractive entry-level system. I agree with you (and with Brian Nicol, elsewhere in this thread) that m4/3 has a place in photography. Big sensor is not always the best solution.
“Big sensor is not always the best solution.”
Indeed. I dismissed the Nikon 1 system when it was introduced, because of the small sensor. As the system matured, it offered some really advanced features, unattainable with full-frame at the time. Such as 40 frames per second image capture with full continuous autofocus. Add the amazing 70-300mm (190-810mm equiv) zoom, and you have a birder’s dream camera.
Question: I thought that the micro four thirds format represented a 2x crop compared to full frame. In that case, then, the 10.9mm-to-34mm lens on the D-Lux 8 would be the full frame equivalent of 21.8mm-to-68mm, rather than 24mm-to-70mm, no? On the long end, there surely is no appreciable difference between 68mm and 70mm; but on the wide end, does 21.8mm somehow just get casually rounded up to 24mm, or what? What am I missing?
Also, in response to Stephen, I think you’re 100% correct: Leica did have the right compact camera in its lineup—twice in fact!—and both times it killed its beautiful Leica CLs. It’s a damn shame!!!
Yes, Leica describe(s) the 10.9–34 f/1.7–2.8 lens as “35mm camera equivalent: 24-75mm”.
And yes, the micro 4/3 sensor – being a quarter the size of ‘full-frame’ – normally provides the same aspect as a lens of twice the actual focal length, so a 10.9–34mm lens on m4/3 should give results like a 21.8mm-to-68mm would on ‘full-frame’ ..but that’s if the FULL m4/3 sensor were used.
But Leica also says “4/3” CMOS sensor, 22 MP / 17 MP (total/effective)” ..meaning that the full area of the sensor is not used. And that’s because the camera is built to give the same angle of view with each of its four alternative frame shapes (4:3, 3:2, 16:9 and 1:1, changed with a switch on the lens) – though, of course, they’re cropped to different overall shapes.
So because the entire sensor area is NOT used in any of those picture shapes, or ‘aspect ratios’, the lens equivalent rounds down to about 24mm-to-75mm ..a slightly less wide, and slightly longer zoom equivalent than you’d normally expect when using the full area of an m4/3 sensor..
Got it. Makes sense. What’s more, it explains why Leica claims only 17 “effective” megapixels, to which I also did not know the answer. Thank you very much.
‘S a pleasure.
Sticking with my first impressions of the D-Lux 8. It is a quick money grab: 2015 and 2018 technology (lens resp. sensor) in a different wrapping. The same thing but with cosmetic changes. That being said, if I was a D-Lux 7 shooter I would probably be very happy with it, so from that perspective it is probably a good thing. The Panasonic is not for me but I applaud that Panasonic at least tried to innovate and think outside of the box. All I really want from Leica/Panasonic is a rangefinder style full frame CL2 with a lmited set of smaller lenses, ideally also enough MP so that I can keep on using my TL lenses. Patience is growing thing though, very thin, and I potentially see a Nikon Zf (or Sony A7c II) in my future.
For me, this is two missed opportunities:
I accept the Panasonic is pitched at the “Vlogging content creator” but surely they could have announced that a photographers version is in coming – so a version with an EVF and the other bells and whistles – two very different machines, for two very different crowds – and the photographers version would chew at the heels of Fujis X100 series, more so if the sLUTs catches on and works as intended. I agree with the other commentators who say the S9 looks like the now defunct TL2.. odd that.
As for Leica, its almost leica they went out of their way to avoid doing a CL with a fixed lens – which would have been a truly decent beast – and probably one much wanted by their community. Releasing a D-Lux 8 which while it looks very pretty, and oddly exactly like I had hoped would be the next X, CL etc, I just fail to see where it is really intended to land – most people I talk to are either APSC or Full Frame shooters – I use both, and use them well, and in differing situations one is more preferable, usually full frame in lowlight.
I will just have to hope the X keeps going, and if that fails the Df will fill me with all of my needs – unless I add a Zf to the range, as that is starting to look like a viable alternative to both Fuji, and Panasonic offerings – perhaps Nikon knew something when they landed the Zf as they did, and the price point they have.
Speaking of Zf, my complaint against Nikon is that the missed a good bet by not making the FTZ adapters more backwardly compatible. It would have been technically a non-issue to incorporate a focusing motor and auto-diaphragm solenoid in the FTZ. OK, it would have increased the cost of the FTZ. So make two models, one like they did, and one like I describe. Photographers could choose and pay accordingly.
I suppose it was a marketing decision, not engineering. Either it was a cynical take that Nikon can claim to be sticking to their famous compatibility by supporting the G and S types, while encouraging purchase of new glass, or Nikon is run by a bunch of youngsters who have no idea how many photographers still use Pre-AI, AI, AiS, and AF-D lens types.
Hi Martin, also of the newer Z lenses it is really only the 28mm f2.8 and the 40m f2 that are well suited to the Zf. As a non-Nikon shooter and using mainly a 35mm focal length I would still be reluctant to step in right now. As for the legacy glass, I am frequently tempted to buy some AI(S) glass and a Nikon F film camera. Perhaps one day and then I would probably use the same glass on the Zf as well.
I agree, it seems Nikon is not very much invested in making much in the way of classic-design glass for the two classic-design cameras. (That is one reason I am sticking with my Dfs).
However, where there’s a market, there’s a way. At least for now. Voigtlander (Cosina, Japan)i s offering several new MF lenses for the Zf and Zfc that are styled like classic 1960’s Nikkors. https://www.voigtlaender.de/z-mount/?lang=en I have not handled one of theses, but I do have a Voigtlander 40mm f2 Ultron in F-mount, and the build quality seems as good as AiS Nikkors.
Also Artralab (China) are offering NoNikkor (seriously, that’s the name) MF lenses that can be had in either 1960s or 1980s style! https://artralab.com/search?q=Z-mount
The Panasonic S9 will replace my SL (too big, too heavy) as soon as possible. Can’t wait to use R- and M-lenses on it. It’s almost the camera we’ve been waiting for: A Q without a fixed lens. I wonder if there will be a Leica version (with EVF) any time soon…?
Interesting that seemingly the only video posted online featuring the D-Lux 8 ( linked in this article) is by a ‘content creator’. Shouldn’t he be looking at a Panasonic S9 then or does he desperately need that red dot? he might have to buy both!
In my opinion, Leica already had the right compact camera in the line up. It was called the CL. Neither of these cameras is on my shopping list for any justifiable reason and we certainly don’t need to buy them just because they are new. The observation that Micro four thirds is plenty good enough in terms of image quality is a good one but then wasn’t an APS-C Leica even better? I think so. If you twisted my arm and forced me to choose,,the Leica D, er sorry… D-Lux, has a viewfinder and a camera without a viewfinder like the Panasonic, means you may as well use your phone; good luck with that in bright sunlight.
Leica’s APSC sensors would have worked fine in a camera like the D-Lux8 in my humblest of opinions. It would have been a true X successor.
I still own an increasingly creaky DL-109 whose lens sometimes extends and sometimes does not, that can sometimes autofocus and sometimes not. It’s a gem of a compact camera and and I love the analog controls. The new DL-8 looks like an upgrade but not by much and possibly not worth it if you own a recent predecessor.
The DL-8 brings it closer to the Q and SL lines in terms of UI and that is a good thing from a consistency perspective. But the price gap between the DL-8 and Q3 is enormous: what Leica really needs is a XX2 to fill that gap. Could an S9 be adapted from a design perspective to have an integrated EVF, a 24MP full frame sensor, obviously L-mount, and the Leica “house” UI? The space is there but did Panasonic and Leica collaborate on the bare bones of the S9’s design to make this possible?
The S9 Leica conversion you talk of, would be the CL with a full frame.
Yep – that’s how I would imagine it, promoted with the smallest, lightest lenses from the L list of full frame lenses.
Great article, Jason, Keith, and Mike. Sort of like a panel discussion.
I do like the D-Lux 8 concept. Probably would appeal to me if I was into Leica. But as a Nikon man, for a pocketable compact I like my Nikon 1 J5. A 1″ sensor, yet same 21 MP resolution, in a even smaller package. A similar range 27-81mm (equivalent) zoom, but best of all interchangeable with many 1 Nikkor lenses. But I only use three, the aforementioned zoom, a 10mm (27mm equiv) f2.8 pancake, and a 18.5mm (50mm equiv) f1.8.
My Nikon V1 is still chugging along. Remarkably good color and image quality from that little sensor. Hard to get the batteries now, I had to buy one from Manfrotto.
I also liked the Nikon 1 system and used both cameras and several lenses for time, around 2011. Even a 1in sensor can provide excellent results (as it does on the Sony compacts) and that it an even strong care for the larger-sensor D-Lux 8.
As a former D-lux owner (last one was a Typ 109) I can say the following:
1) Love the compact form factor and very intuitive mechanical controls
2) The M4/3 sensor is excellent and yields large high quality prints if you wish to do that
3) The Macro capabilities are excellent, along with the image stabilization
4) Never needed the external flash attachment
5) The lens, as pointed out in the article above, is excellent, even wide open. Not sure Leica could make a cost-effective improvement, although I could accept a fixed 35mm f/2 equivalent lens (which would be around 18mm in focal length). Such a lens would be extremely compact relative to the current zoom lens when activated)
I am anxiously awaiting a detailed review but I expect the D-Lux 8 to be an improvement. I am a digital M owner and would welcome a quality pocketable backup for travel, which the D-Lux 8 looks like.
I agree that this camera with a fixed 18mm lens (f/2 preferably, or even f/1.7 “Summilux”) would sell well. It would indeed be a true mini Q.
Sounds like they really need the X’s 23mm on an APSC sensor at f1.7 (in some circumstances) yes the aperture throttles in certain situations.
I think the proposed D-Lux is exactly what some of us envisaged for an CL fixed lens variation. Its almost like Leica just dont want to build it.